Challenger/Columbia, here is your chance to gain a new convert!

Jon Berndt wrote in message
om...
"Paul Maxson" wrote:

You read my dad's testimony to the PCR Jon?

Also, if you are referring to the testimony that your dad posted
here a year or so ago, then, yes, I have read that. Waste of time.

It's evident that he couldn't have been referring to that segment,
which I furnished from *my own tape* and noted as incomplete.

As I understand his question and its context, Paul wants to know
if you have ever read the Commission's *own* transcripts of my
*complete* testimony, or listened to the Commission's tape of it.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

-"Chuck Stewart" wrote in message news
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:06:52 +0000, Jon Berndt wrote:
Isn't that the endless spew JTM poured out when folks _were_ mostly
ignoring him? "My PC deposition etc"...?

I see Berndt had to enlist help *again* for the answer.

Jon, I read it, no wait I didn't, wait I did, wait... Did I? Paging Stewart I need help.

I asked if he (Jon) had read it in the PCR (not here) can you read? I even linked to the index page!
Now he is mailing what to Daniel? Just tell us Jon. What are you mailing? This cloak and dagger
Micky Mouse crap is ridicoulous.

And Paul wants to review all this...

I want someone to go get the Roger's Report and read my father's testimony to me, yes I do!

it's going to attempt to blather the group to death

No, that's your job Stew.


I'm going to have to use more advanced filter options to deal with
their babble from now on, I think...

Please do, with a quickness.

I would apreciate it.

Sincerly,

PM


--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirl threats? Menace? "

"Jon Berndt" wrote in message om...
"Paul Maxson" wrote in message


How long is your copy of E-207 Jon?

I have E-203,4,5,6 ,-07 on CDR. I have the Flight Ops Summary and Castglance too.

What did you mail out?

Ask Daniel.

Do you have E-202 Jon? Will you mail me a copy? How long is your E-204?

Don't believe I have seen E-202. I have E-204, -205, -207, -208, M-1
thru -4, etc.

However, we have been through this for over two years. You go over it
yourself and google the discussions. It is a pointless waste of time
to go over with you, because it is quite obvious you have your mind
made up. I gave you a link to my paper.

Jon

I did "ask Daniel" actually he called me from work. His answer? " I don't know."
Do you want to discuss it or not? You think your .pdf file is like case closed
or something? Are you ok Jon? Are you posting from work again?

PM

"John Maxson" wrote in message ...
Jon Berndt wrote in message
om...
"Paul Maxson" wrote:

You read my dad's testimony to the PCR Jon?

Also, if you are referring to the testimony that your dad posted
here a year or so ago, then, yes, I have read that. Waste of time.

It's evident that he couldn't have been referring to that segment,
which I furnished from *my own tape* and noted as incomplete.

As I understand his question and its context, Paul wants to know
if you have ever read the Commission's *own* transcripts of my
*complete* testimony, or listened to the Commission's tape of it.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Thanks,

I'm glad someone understood such a cut and dried specific question with a link.
I didn't link to a tiny url or google post in my question.

They see what they want to see and selectively filter out the rest.

PM

"Roger Balettie" wrote in message ...
"Paul Maxson" wrote:
From everything I have read imagery is only taken on lift off, not
landings. Is this true?

No.

Thanks, I was told otherwise. So I learned something.


I understand E-207 had a real good angle/view of the tragedy but I don't
have it.
Will someone share and expound on it in a step by step fashion?

Jon recently provided digital copies to Daniel. Please contact Daniel.

Actual I have E-207 raw boresight video 1.55 seconds worth, is there more than that?
I have E-2-3-4-5-6 too, and soon I will have more. I also have the Summary Flight OPS.

IIRC Daniel supplied Jon with video not vice vera. Am I wrong?

I am viewing it frame by frame now. I asked Jon for *E-202!*
That would be *really* nice, a gesture of good will so to speak! It is not asking
too much considering everything you and Jon have said about me in the past.
Sometimes IIRC Jon even posted from Lockheed correct? Not nice.

Roger don't turn on me, please. I helped you when you wanted it better than you
are trying to help me and you know it.

Let's play direct question (not open ended.)

Roger, Do you have the Supreme Court transcripts of my fathers lawsuit in your possesion?

insert answer here _______

I do, it it's entirity.


In 1986 were our satellite camera's less capable than they are now?

If you're talking DoD assets, that's classified.

Well if it can prevent the loss of life on a known bad launch or help in *any* way
then there should be a work around for that imagerey in a non sensitive fashion.
I am not talking about defense of our country but preventable loss of life.



Lastly on Challenger, will someone go get my father John Thomas Maxson's
testimony
in it's entirety (I am not going to pretend I am 100% clueless on
Challenger)
and walk me through it please?

As pointed out, your father flooded this group with several presentations of
his "testimony". IIRC, there was little to no response to the posts he made
then... it was as if he were talking to himself.

At times he was posting to himself because no one wanted to listen till Columbia!
Not talking but typing (big difference Roger.)


If it has not already been discussed ad naseum here, it is most likely
because it is not given much, if any, credence here.

If you wish to find it and discuss it or ask questions about it, feel free.

To ask us to do this work for you is equivalent to asking us to go out and
find all the theories and positions of the "we never landed on the Moon"
crowd, present them to you, and walk you through them one-by-one.

Bla Bla waste of space Bla


It's not going to happen.

Why not?


There have been websites that debunk the fake-lunar-landing theories...
there are a couple that do that to your father's theories:

http://home.austin.rr.com/sts51lvideo/
-and-
http://www.hal-pc.org/~jsb/conspiracy.html

Jon has also provided a summary PDF he
http://home.houston.rr.com/fancijon/conspiracy.pdf

No thanks, not in their *current* form. They need updates, subtractions and retractions
before I will even glance at those sites. That is like me telling you to go to
www.mission51l.com I know what you have written and don't accept it to date.



So why do people that were there in the know
pretend that John Maxson was a "janitor" or is a kook?

I've mentioned before that *I* was the one that first brought this up...
(http://makeashorterlink.com/?E381219C5)

QUOTE
I will take "credit" for this one... to a point. I never *called* Mr.
Maxson (the elder) a custodian, but rather stated that the nebulous job
title he claimed was so vague as to be able to also contain the job
descriptions of a custodian. I was seeking further clarification.
/QUOTE

So are people still at a doubt as to what role John Thomas Maxson played
in Mission 51-L?

Quite.


After knowing what you know now I think you should retract some stuff Roger
and only then will we make some headway. This is not going to go away I assure you!


In a Santa Barbara News-Press article (dated Sunday, January 28, 1996), the
following was written based on direct statements from your father:

QUOTE
On Dec. 6, 1985, seven weeks before the explosion, two engineers reported to
him that massive amounts of liquid hydrogen, a shuttle fuel that is
extremely flammable in air, were leaking from pipes at the shuttle's base.
He took a look, smelled the leaking hydrogen, and figured it would take 90
days to make the necessary repairs.
/QUOTE

Roger please. Just where did you find that article? I'll answer , I sent you the info so
please don't patranize me because I have the original not a copy. I got mine several
years ago, when did you get yours and why? Mine was sent to me because I was family.



Paul, even my 13-year-old son knows that hydrogen is an odorless gas.

Good for him, I'm sure my father and brother know that too. Smart kid.


What is the protocol for this scenario? FDO's expound please.

It's been discussed and documented in the CAIB report that imaging was
requested, but denied.

Well, finnaly one answer I was looking for. Thanks Roger. Denied. Let that sink in.



Satellites.

What is the ability of our satellites in 2003 in regards to space
shuttles?

Classified.

I guess we should all turn off our TV's then and go live in a cave. They show
Sattelite imagery all the time on Fox etc.

Roger we can be civil if you don't patronize me ok? I am simply asking if from 1986 to
2003 did the sattelites *ever* train their cameras on a space shuttle, the ISS or anything
NASA related? Is that "classified?"

Let's be civil not patronizing. I hold a classified position in a federal building that
houses 2 or more federal agencies. I have signed non disclosures, I was in the Military.

I am not talking about weapons or trying to breech our National Security, I am asking
the questions a layman might ask, I was hoping for better answers but the "DENIED"
speaks volumes and for that I thank you.

PM


Roger
--
Roger Balettie
former Flight Dynamics Officer
Space Shuttle Mission Control
http://www.balettie.com/

Roger and Jon,

*This* (below) is why I ask are you sure you want me to google up the past?

This stuff below about me.

FOR THE RECORD once and for all.

I clearly posted as my fathers son and was RIDICULED, abused and threatened.
I have since proven that prior to my arrival here some already KNEW who
John Maxson was. Oberg, Keller, Spencer, KATZ etc! Now you are starting to
look not only abusive but "silly." Should we drudge up the "bit of trouble"
thread now too? Talk about rehashing.

or (or any number between 1 and 9) is
an often used email address and very *acceptable* on Usenet to stop spam.
If someone email you at that address they will get a polite response.

www.privacy.net is where I got it from. OverSoul spoke out and was ran
off but newsflash, he read the book, he invested money to read the theory.
You didn't, Jon didn't, Chuck didn't. Yet you ran him off just like you are trying
to do to Stocker and it doesn't work anymore! News Flash... I saw
OverSoul (new handle now) posting on a well respected group recently so
you never know who might be reading here ok? NASA and Lockheed for starters.

My fathers website was brought down several times (see below) and now Herb
comes along and encourages same on my brothers website! I'm quite sure the laymen can
formulate a pattern against us by now. I post, I get trashed. My father comes along and
is called a janitor and a kook. His website faces numerous attacks. (Logged and reported.)

A 3rd party comes along and reviews the book and gets trashed. (Legally purchased.)

Daniel posts a website and it gets a DoS from here. (Publicly archived.)

Another 3rd party comes along and he is called a Maxson etc (Stocker.)

Meanwhile you all illegally read the book or borrowed it (never spent a dime)
and even held it against the owners permission so you could erect web pages.

If you think for one minute that these facts add any credibility to your web pages
against John Maxson you are out to lunch.

PM





"John Maxson" wrote in message ...
Roger Balettie wrote in message
...
"Paul Maxson" wrote:

I understand E-207 had a real good angle/view of the
tragedy but I don't have it. Will someone share and
expound on it in a step by step fashion?

Jon recently provided digital copies to Daniel. Please
contact Daniel.

This is a forum, not a personal communication line. Paul
asked *here* about E207, not unidentified "digital copies."
He asked you to expound on E207 in its entirety. Can you?

As pointed out, your father flooded this group with several
presentations of his "testimony".

At Senator Grassley's urging and upon his strong advice, I
posted everything I had taped myself (an incomplete record)
for this group. There was no intent to flood; but I had to
break it into manageable-sized posts, over several days.

So why do people that were there in the know pretend
that John Maxson was a "janitor" or is a kook?

I've mentioned before that *I* was the one that first brought
this up... (http://makeashorterlink.com/?E381219C5)

Here's your original post, which libeled me badly at a time when
I had made only two technical posts, then lost access to Deja:

===========================================
From: Roger Balettie )
Subject: The Stigma of Mission 51-L
Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:26:55 GMT


"OverSoul ©" wrote:
I'm not "aligning" myself with anyone.

When you propose to be the "voice" for someone else in a two-sided debate,
that's a pretty "aligning" maneuver, no?

Each of us should strive to find the "middle-ground".

Except for when there is a *very* clear set of facts. They are indisputable
and easy to prove. The "theories" proposed my Mr. Maxson (the elder) have
been very easy to disprove, once you were so kind as to summarize from your
reading of his book. Part of the frustration with this topic seen in this
group stems from the many and frustrating requests for Mr. Maxson (the
elder) *himself* to state at least *one* credible theory that hasn't already
been completely and udderly disproven.

It has yet to happen. Once Mr. Maxson (the elder) "mysteriously" stopped
posting, Mr. Maxson (the younger), in a variety of pseudonyms (and I'm not
talking the multiple emails that Paul has used before stopping on the latest
iteration) claiming to be "excited readers of a dynamic new book" (or some
paraphrase to that extent), started with vitriolic and unwarranted attacks
on respected members of this newsgroup.

I admit, I got caught up *WAY* too deeply in the personal aspects of
pointing out Mr. Maxson's (the younger) flaws in logic and personality, but
I have dropped that tactic as it became boring and not fun anymore. I won't
respond to him any longer, unless it is a logical discussion of facts, into
which he seems to refuse to enter.

As I previously stated, I don't "believe" or "dismiss" anything.

If this is true, then you *know* nothing! There comes a time when, after
being presented with facts and theories without facts that are easily
disproven, you usually have to make a decision... you have to ask yourself:
"What do *I* believe?"

I, personally, believe that I have all of the facts necessary to state that
the Rogers Commission investigation provided the correct and accurate
summary of the events of 28 January 1986 that led to the destruction of the
Space Shuttle Challenger.

I also believe that any and all attempts to theorize any other possibility
have been and can be very easily dismissed.

I further believe that theorizing that the Challenger Accident occured for
any reason *other* than the established facts are on the same intellectual
plane as those who believe the recent Fox network television show theorizing
that we did *NOT* land 12 men on the Moon during the Apollo program.

IMHBCO, that summarizes my thoughts on the subject.

I think Mr. Maxson's theories should be investigated by
open-minded individuals and a fair attempt should be made
to prove or disprove them. I haven't seen any of that here.

I suggest you do a newsgroup search on this subject. That was the *primary
focus* of most of us when Mr. Maxson (the elder) first appeared in this
newsgroup promoting his "book". We asked him to provide us with some of his
theories (not the entire book at first!), so that we could actually listen
to and consider his point of view. He repeatedly refused, laying out
conspiracy theory after theory about personal attacks, etc. He then
vanished without ever answering any of the requests, and Mr. Maxson (the
younger) appeared to fuel the massive flame war that insued.

Since Mr Maxson was somewhat involved with
the shuttle program, (which should be easy to prove or
disprove),

In what role, exactly? If this has been covered, forgive me... but, I have
yet to hear anything other than a vague description from Mr. Maxson (the
elder) that could actually be applied to a custodian!

Roger, I know you have worked on the shuttle
program (according to your signature)

Here are two official "Ask MCC" entries that a quick Google Search revealed:

http://38.201.67.77/shuttle/archives...28_10_49_50.ht
ml
http://38.201.67.77/shuttle/archives...27_20_24_30.ht
ml

And, here are two official NASA flight rosters (from STS-43 and STS-62, 2 of
the 26 Shuttle flights I have worked):

http://spacelink.nasa.gov/NASA.Proje...Development.of
.Space/Human.Space.Flight/Shuttle/Shuttle.Missions/Flight.042.STS-43/Launch.
Information/Flight.Control
http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/pao/media/re...-95/94-018.DOC
.html

Is that better? Please, don't take *my* word for it... I have eyewitnesses
who regularly post to this newsgroup (Jorge Frank and Jim Oberg for two) who
have actually *SEEN* me at work in the MCC.

Is that sufficient proof *beyond* my signature?

I would greatly be interested in any similar proof for Mr. Maxson (the
elder).

I think if people would give him a fair shot at
explaining his theories, then they could get the
information first hand and not "diluted" by my
interpretations.

We would all *LOVE* to hear these theories... as I said above, we tried many
times to get Mr. Maxson (the elder) to propose his theories. He *REFUSED*
and insisted that we had to purchase his book. We refused, seeing the
pattern developing that we have seen many times in the past.

This is a public forum and not a "members-only" club
where you can kick out people you don't like.

I have *never* said anything to the contrary. Please do not insinuate that
I have.

However, that being said, if you come into a public forum and spout garbage
(as has Mr. Maxson, the younger), you should not be surprised when the like
is returned upon you.

I don't believe I've broken any rules, have I?

Of course not... you and I are having a very civil disagreement here. I
was one of the first, IIRC, that thanked you for your efforts at attempting
to explain some of Mr. Maxson's (the elder) theories. That gave us all
confirmation that there were nothing but recycled (and a couple of new!)
conspiracy theories contained within the book that were *easily* and quickly
disproven.

IMHBCO, I am starting to have doubts as to your objectivity here. If I told
you the sky was blue, and could prove it by direct visual observation, would
you want to reach "middle ground" just because someone with a book to sell
told you it was green?

Roger
=============================
Roger Balettie
former Flight Dynamics Officer
Space Shuttle Mission Control
http://members.aol.com/ramjetfdo/
========================================

I believe you also misrepresented my sons in the post above.

So are people still at a doubt as to what role John Thomas
Maxson played in Mission 51-L?

Quite.

You claim to have read my book, though. Remember that.

In a Santa Barbara News-Press article (dated Sunday,
January 28, 1996), the following was written based on
direct statements from your father:

QUOTE
On Dec. 6, 1985, seven weeks before the explosion, two engineers
reported to him that massive amounts of liquid hydrogen, a shuttle
fuel that is extremely flammable in air, were leaking from pipes at
the shuttle's base. He took a look, smelled the leaking hydrogen,
and figured it would take 90 days to make the necessary repairs.
/QUOTE

The reporter also quoted one of these engineers, *confirming*
those prelaunch hydrogen leaks. You are selectively biasing.

As you know, I have no control over errors made by reporters
in writing about me. They have misquoted or misrepresented
my statements from the beginning. I know better than anyone
that hydrogen is odorless, and I did not tell her I "smelled the
leaking hydrogen." That is not to say that in a hydrogen-rich
atmosphere the air has the same effect on one's nostrils as in
a normal one, at least not in my experience. From childhood,
after thunderstorms here in Iowa the air always had a "fresher"
smell (quite different, of course, from a hydrogen-rich one).

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 03:21:13 +0000, Roger Balettie wrote:

"John Maxson" wrote:

... That is not to say that in a hydrogen-rich atmosphere the
air has the same effect on one's nostrils as in a normal one, at
least not in my experience.

So... you're now claiming that there was enough H2 in the
"hydrogen-rich atmosphere" that your nostrils were affected?

And the fact that JTM is delusionl surprises you... how?

Are you aware of the H2 flammable range in "normal air"?

Well, when JTM was ... reassigned ... to pad duties (after failing
to follow instructions in his normal duties) he seemed to develop
an immense fear of the LH2 gear in the pad complex.

What percentage affects "one's nostrils" without said nostrils
bursting into flame?

That wouldn't happen because said nose would be encased in a foot
of ice... if JTM's fantasy of said leaks supercooling SRB's is to
be taken seriously.

Though why anyone wouldn't have noticed the thick white fog
blanketing the pad complex is beyond me...

Roger

--
Chuck Stewart
"Anime-style catgirls: Threat? Menace? Or just studying algebra?"

"Paul Maxson" wrote in message
...
"John Maxson" wrote in message
...
Jon Berndt wrote in message
om...
"Paul Maxson" wrote:

You read my dad's testimony to the PCR Jon?

Also, if you are referring to the testimony that your dad posted
here a year or so ago, then, yes, I have read that. Waste of time.

It's evident that he couldn't have been referring to that segment,
which I furnished from *my own tape* and noted as incomplete.

As I understand his question and its context, Paul wants to know
if you have ever read the Commission's *own* transcripts of my
*complete* testimony, or listened to the Commission's tape of it.

--
John Thomas Maxson, Retired Engineer (Aerospace)
Author, The Betrayal of Mission 51-L (www.mission51l.com)


Thanks,

I'm glad someone understood such a cut and dried specific question with a
link.
I didn't link to a tiny url or google post in my question.

Actually to be honest Paul, I didn't realize this is what you were asking.
Though I'll admit I've only been following this thread as an aside.

I for one can say I haven't. Is it on-line someplace? (and forgive me if
you're already posted the link, I must have missed it.)


They see what they want to see and selectively filter out the rest.

PM

Paul Maxson wrote:

My fathers website was brought down several times (see below) and now Herb
comes along and encourages same on my brothers website!

This is the 3rd time today you've stated Schaltegger
"encouraged" this activity, that he issued "instructions
to bring down my brothers website", etc. I didn't
remember such a post, so I scanned all of Herb's
postings in this newsgroup since the first of this
month. Didn't see where he called for such an action.

I did see where someone else _did_ call for a DoS
attack.

Could you post the article id and date/time of Herb's
alleged post calling for a DoS attack on Daniel's
web site?

"Paul Maxson" wrote in message
...
Satellites.

What is the ability of our satellites in 2003 in regards to space
shuttles?

Classified.

I guess we should all turn off our TV's then and go live in a cave. They
show
Sattelite imagery all the time on Fox etc.

Roger we can be civil if you don't patronize me ok? I am simply asking if
from 1986 to
2003 did the sattelites *ever* train their cameras on a space shuttle, the
ISS or anything
NASA related? Is that "classified?"


John Glenn's flight is the only one I'm aware of.


Let's be civil not patronizing. I hold a classified position in a federal
building that
houses 2 or more federal agencies. I have signed non disclosures, I was in
the Military.

I am not talking about weapons or trying to breech our National Security,
I am asking
the questions a layman might ask, I was hoping for better answers but the
"DENIED"
speaks volumes and for that I thank you.



PM


Roger
--
Roger Balettie
former Flight Dynamics Officer
Space Shuttle Mission Control
http://www.balettie.com/