Observed retrogrades

Only with present imaging can this topic be dealt with properly as
rightly understood there are two types of retrogrades which
distinguish the motion of the inner planets from the outer planets.

As the inner planets of Venus and Mercury swerve around the Sun they
appear to move forward as they come from behind the Sun and then move
in an opposite direction again st the background stars when hurtling
in front of the Sun as they overtake our planet -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

The retrogrades of the outer planets are different and the perspective
of a faster moving Earth overtaking these planets generates the
familiar forward-backward-forward motion -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

Of course,these easily understood perspectives do not rely on a
ridiculous empirical view that has no astronomical value whatsoever -

"For to the earth planetary motions appear sometimes direct, sometimes
stationary, nay, and sometimes retrograde. But from the sun they are
always seen direct,..." Newton

The misguided perspective of empiricists has proven far more difficult
to overturn than a geocentric view as the nature of their agenda is
homocentric by virtue that they reference everything against a
rotating celestial sphere,however,the fertile ground of contemporary
imaging is the real decider in what is true and what is not - it only
takes people with a genuine love and feeling for astronomy and the
celestial arena to make sense of different types of retrogrades using
different perspectives of motion.

"oriel36" wrote in message
...

Only with present imaging can this topic be dealt with properly as
rightly understood there are two types of retrogrades which
distinguish the motion of the inner planets from the outer planets.

As the inner planets of Venus and Mercury swerve around the Sun they
appear to move forward as they come from behind the Sun and then move
in an opposite direction again st the background stars when hurtling
in front of the Sun as they overtake our planet -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

The retrogrades of the outer planets are different and the perspective
of a faster moving Earth overtaking these planets generates the
familiar forward-backward-forward motion -

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

Of course,these easily understood perspectives do not rely on a
ridiculous empirical view that has no astronomical value whatsoever -
================================================== ==
Your ridiculous empirical thuggery has no astronomical value whatsoever.
You've never observed anything. **** OFF!

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway.
When I get my O.B.E. I'll be an earlobe.

On Jan 24, 12:00*am, oriel36 quoted, in
part:
But from the sun they are
always seen direct,

What is that but a restatement of the discovery of Copernicus?

John Savard

These two sets of images demonstrate the subtle differences between
apparent retrogrades seen in the inner and outer planets and
constitute pure astronomy and especially how the Earth's planetary
dynamics grew out of the geocentric tradition -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

The apparent motion of Venus against the background stars shows it
swerving outwards and then inwards around the central Sun.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html

The faster motion of the Earth overtaking the outer planets accounts
for the apparent forward-backward-forward motion of these planets.

Essentially this is pure astronomical enjoyment and requires no
comment,contemporary imaging allows readers to distinguish the subtle
differences in the motions of planets as seen from a moving Earth.No
group of people have a right to alter human achievement and especially
in the matter of retrograde resolution for they would curse the rest
of the world the way they curse themselves by having no sense of
satisfaction in properly interpreting the celestial arena and the
effects on the Earth,it may be that they are incapable of entering
into the spirit of astronomy and the line of reasoning which give the
world so many insights to enjoy but there is no excuse for those who
have the talent to intelligently work out what is presented here by
virtue that it is astronomy being practised as it once was.

"oriel36" wrote in message
...

These two sets of images demonstrate the subtle differences between
apparent retrogrades seen in the inner and outer planets and
constitute pure astronomy and especially how the Earth's planetary
dynamics grew out of the geocentric tradition -

http://www.masil-astro-imaging.com/S...age%20flat.jpg

The apparent motion of Venus against the background stars shows it
swerving outwards and then inwards around the central Sun.

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap011220.html
======================================
"planets do a cosmic dance that is hard to appreciate on any single night".
Which is Jupiter, which is Saturn and how can you tell, Kelleher?





The faster motion of the Earth overtaking the outer planets accounts
for the apparent forward-backward-forward motion of these planets.

Essentially this is pure astronomical enjoyment and requires no
comment,contemporary imaging allows readers to distinguish the subtle
differences in the motions of planets as seen from a moving Earth.No
group of people have a right to alter human achievement and especially
in the matter of retrograde resolution for they would curse the rest
of the world the way they curse themselves by having no sense of
satisfaction in properly interpreting the celestial arena and the
effects on the Earth,it may be that they are incapable of entering
into the spirit of astronomy and the line of reasoning which give the
world so many insights to enjoy but there is no excuse for those who
have the talent to intelligently work out what is presented here by
virtue that it is astronomy being practised as it once was.

=================================================
No Kelleher has a right to alter human achievement and especially
in the matter of retrograde resolution for he would curse the rest
of the world the way he curses himself by having no sense of
satisfaction in properly interpreting the celestial arena and the
effects on the Earth, it may be that he is incapable of entering
into the spirit of astronomy and the line of reasoning which gives the
world so many insights to enjoy but there is no excuse for those who
have the talent to intelligently work out what is presented here by
virtue that it is astronomy being practised as it still is.

So what if failed academics can't appreciate the sequential imaging or
the time lapse footage,a person with an affection for astronomy can
instruct any student or interested adult as to what retrogrades are
and what distinguishes retrogrades of the inner planets from
retrogrades observed in the outer planets.Of course all observations
and conclusions are made from a moving Earth and unfortunately the
dominant empirical cult(ure) refuses to accept the logical and proper
reasoning which judges solar system structure and planetary motions
from the point of view of a moving Earth by opting for an
idiosyncratic 'view from the Sun'.

I welcome those who try to promote the Ra/Dec framework by virtue that
it is a valuable addition to astronomy as long as nobody tries to
justify the Earth's planetary dynamics using celestial sphere rotation
and perhaps people will eventually deal with the matter as they have
with the wandering analemma Sun which has already been dealt with
effectively in demonstrating that sometimes there are just some
observations that you don't need to justify.

It doesn't seem long since Oriel36 said he was leaving the group. As I
have said before his mental health issues prevent him from doing so -
he quite literally cannot help himself from posting minor variations
of the same old rubbish again and again.

Notice how carefully Oriel, over a period of some years, has avoided
explaining exactly where his views and the views of other members of
this group differ. He writes whole paragraphs - sometimes nultiple
paragraphs - hundreds of times a year but refuses to explain something
as basic as this.


He also refuses to answer any questions designed to identify what the
difference might be.


As an example - Oriel, if you look due south at midnight on July 1st
and again at midnight on January 1st of the next year will you see the
same stars in the same places.


Yes or no?

For long enough I have complained that the work of our astronomical
ancestors is being ruined by taking the stellar circumpolar
observation a step too far and as it is tied in with Newton's
idiosyncratic absolute/relative time space and motion modeling
agenda,it also works against retrogrades,their proper resolution and
the differences in perspectives between the inner and outer
planets,differences which can be settled easily with contemporary
imaging.

I was on an airplane today and marveled at what it takes to put a
person in a seat in mid-air,not just the daily ins and outs of this
process but the trajectory of historical and technical developments
which rely on human ingenuity,what works and what does not.In the
matter of planetary dynamics,timekeeping and terrestrial sciences
there should be a similar approach - nobody should have to spend a
decade explaining how the 24 hour AM/PM system and Lat/Long systems
developed out of the calendar system and that ancient system itself
used specific references which do not involve stellar circumpolar
motion,that the fundamental unit of timekeeping is a proportion of
days to years and its transfer to a dynamical equivalent of daily
rotations to orbital circuits.It is not even this,it is now when there
is so much visual information out there that requires proper
interpretation,observers choose to remain with a barren late 17th
century view that undermines the functioning interpretative faculties
that we all possess.

The readers in this forum had some intellectual capital by asserting
the 'solar vs sidereal' ideology as it tried to retain astronomical
references,albeit tangled and corrupt,yet they are now being ignored
by the timekeeping crowd who still retain an Ra/Dec framework but
assign an idealized 24 hour rotation in the year 1820 .Instead of
commissioning an investigation which is not an exercise in damage
control but rather a complete revisiting of all the principles
involved in formatting the the artificial human timekeeping
constructs from their natural occurrences,it seems that the community
has taken the least attractive option of slipping into an intellectual
oblivion by abdicating responsibility whereby astronomy disappears
altogether as a productive discipline and taking terrestrial sciences
with it.

In the end somebody has to pick up the pieces and work towards
creating a productive environment for I would not trust myself to fly
on that airplane if any single link on the chain was corrupt or
unreliable,likewise a decisive step must be taken surrounding
astronomy.

"oriel36" wrote in message
...

For long enough I have complained
==============================
without good cause, so just shut the **** up and learn. Begin by answering
what you can observe for yourself. Do you see the same stars at midnight Jan
1
as you do at midnight Jun 1, thug?

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway.
When I get my O.B.E. I'll be an earlobe.